I understand the Lions position. They took back money from Barry and Calvin, if they don’t take back money from Frank it will leave a sour taste in their former players. It has to be they do it to everyone in that position or they do it to no one. There is no middle ground.
I think it's more, if they don't do it consistently, they won't be able to do it when they REALLY get screwed over. Imagine signing Trey at his current contract, then he retires only one-two years in. You damn well better recoup something or your cap is crap for 2-3 years with nothing in return.
That said, Decker's shown how to avoid that -- force a release.
Sounds like a tempest in a teapot. Asked for an amount back to keep consistent with precedent. Also to discourage people from getting a free retirement bonus
Dan Campbell pushes his guys harder during practice and training camp than any other NFL coach. They sell Grit gear, and market themselves as being tougher and more committed to sacrificing for the good of the team. Nobody, and I mean nobody, lived up to that ethos than Frank Ragnow. Asking that man for money back after what he went through for this team shows what really matters to this organization. It isn't commitment. It isn't giving more than others are willing to give. It isn't doing whatever it takes for the team. It shows that all of that is nothing but a con. It is complete bullshit, and Sheila, who is the ultimate boss, should fix it now.
You do realize that the signing bonus allows for a cheaper base salary so it doesn't hurt your cap...if players started rejecting signing bonuses then the team would have to start paying more money up front. This isn't a he didn't play out his contract this is, he took less up front so you could spread his cap hit out throughout the entire length of the contract...and that is shitty.
You're right that players do the team a favor by restructuring their contracts to spread out the cap hit. However, a signing bonus is actually more money up front for the player, not less.
The 'shitty' part is that by helping the team's cap, the player is technically putting their own money at risk of a clawback. While the Lions are legally right that it's a prepayment for work not finished, most other teams recognize the physical sacrifice a player made and waive their right to that money as a gesture of respect, something the Lions have historically refused to do.
My emotional take:
Lions paid Ragnow a total $57,000,000 for 7 years of work. In return, he leaves the Lions (and the fans) hanging by 'retiring' after the draft and the start of free agency with two years left on his deal. Business is business: if you sign a contract and take the cash, you finish the job or at least give the team enough notice to find a successor. I’m not losing sleep over a multimillionaire keeping a million or two he did not earn.
Years back during the dot com boom, I took a $12,000 signing bonus with a startup that required a one-year stay. My contract said I’d have to pay back a portion for every month I missed if I quit early. I was doing well enough that they offered me a promotion the same day I went in to quit. Like Ragnow, I kind of screwed them at a critical time but they also screwed me by expecting me by working me to the nub. It was a startup, no time for life.
Unfortunately for them, I was poached by another better firm in month 10. They held me to the deal and I paid back $2000 of the bonus. It never even occurred to me to complain or be pissed. I didn't fulfill the work time we agreed on, so I paid the money. I even asked how I should pay it back before they officially asked for it back. Simple as that.
In Detroit there are stories right now about Wayne County Judges subject to clawbacks. A contract is a contract, and these judges will claim they should keep the money because that was the deal. They won’t demand a windfall for years of devoted service because they want to be taken seriously and out here in the field no contract works that way. Especially not a contract with NFLPA sanctioned clawback provisions. I’m a contract lawyer who should not try playing center in the NFL. Mr. Kelce? He’s a former football player who should not try dispensing legal advice.
I’m surprised no one has brought up the fact that Wood is NOT the owner. The guy is actually Sheila’s employee. Nobody throws shade on Sheila, nor should they in my opinion, but Sheila’s responsible and accountable for the decisions of her employees. This fan base crucified the Ford family for decades for allowing the team to wallow in mediocrity, or worse. I don’t get the hate for Ron Wood. Sheila hired him for his business acumen, not for his input in weekly game planning. We fans have no idea what positive (or negative) impact he has had on the biz side of Sheila’s vision for the team. To my mind she’s done a fabulous job… and Ron Wood has obviously been a huge part of the success the franchise currently enjoys.
The Lions are cap-strapped. Give Ragnow or give me his unearned advance. Can't have the former so I'll take the latter.
Frank’s career earnings were 58 million.
I understand the Lions position. They took back money from Barry and Calvin, if they don’t take back money from Frank it will leave a sour taste in their former players. It has to be they do it to everyone in that position or they do it to no one. There is no middle ground.
I think it's more, if they don't do it consistently, they won't be able to do it when they REALLY get screwed over. Imagine signing Trey at his current contract, then he retires only one-two years in. You damn well better recoup something or your cap is crap for 2-3 years with nothing in return.
That said, Decker's shown how to avoid that -- force a release.
So keep making an error because you don't learn from the error?
Sounds like a tempest in a teapot. Asked for an amount back to keep consistent with precedent. Also to discourage people from getting a free retirement bonus
Dan Campbell pushes his guys harder during practice and training camp than any other NFL coach. They sell Grit gear, and market themselves as being tougher and more committed to sacrificing for the good of the team. Nobody, and I mean nobody, lived up to that ethos than Frank Ragnow. Asking that man for money back after what he went through for this team shows what really matters to this organization. It isn't commitment. It isn't giving more than others are willing to give. It isn't doing whatever it takes for the team. It shows that all of that is nothing but a con. It is complete bullshit, and Sheila, who is the ultimate boss, should fix it now.
With the Lions on not paying for work not done.
You do realize that the signing bonus allows for a cheaper base salary so it doesn't hurt your cap...if players started rejecting signing bonuses then the team would have to start paying more money up front. This isn't a he didn't play out his contract this is, he took less up front so you could spread his cap hit out throughout the entire length of the contract...and that is shitty.
You're right that players do the team a favor by restructuring their contracts to spread out the cap hit. However, a signing bonus is actually more money up front for the player, not less.
The 'shitty' part is that by helping the team's cap, the player is technically putting their own money at risk of a clawback. While the Lions are legally right that it's a prepayment for work not finished, most other teams recognize the physical sacrifice a player made and waive their right to that money as a gesture of respect, something the Lions have historically refused to do.
My emotional take:
Lions paid Ragnow a total $57,000,000 for 7 years of work. In return, he leaves the Lions (and the fans) hanging by 'retiring' after the draft and the start of free agency with two years left on his deal. Business is business: if you sign a contract and take the cash, you finish the job or at least give the team enough notice to find a successor. I’m not losing sleep over a multimillionaire keeping a million or two he did not earn.
Years back during the dot com boom, I took a $12,000 signing bonus with a startup that required a one-year stay. My contract said I’d have to pay back a portion for every month I missed if I quit early. I was doing well enough that they offered me a promotion the same day I went in to quit. Like Ragnow, I kind of screwed them at a critical time but they also screwed me by expecting me by working me to the nub. It was a startup, no time for life.
Unfortunately for them, I was poached by another better firm in month 10. They held me to the deal and I paid back $2000 of the bonus. It never even occurred to me to complain or be pissed. I didn't fulfill the work time we agreed on, so I paid the money. I even asked how I should pay it back before they officially asked for it back. Simple as that.
In Detroit there are stories right now about Wayne County Judges subject to clawbacks. A contract is a contract, and these judges will claim they should keep the money because that was the deal. They won’t demand a windfall for years of devoted service because they want to be taken seriously and out here in the field no contract works that way. Especially not a contract with NFLPA sanctioned clawback provisions. I’m a contract lawyer who should not try playing center in the NFL. Mr. Kelce? He’s a former football player who should not try dispensing legal advice.
Maybe it's a good thing the Wood is retiring. Too much business (ala Ragnow), too little football!
Hope the Lions can sign a HOF-level FA with that $3mil. Somebody call Marcus Davenport.
Rod Wood just speaking his mind on his way out. Well, how about you don't. You're everything wrong with this franchise. Just shut up and go away.
I’m surprised no one has brought up the fact that Wood is NOT the owner. The guy is actually Sheila’s employee. Nobody throws shade on Sheila, nor should they in my opinion, but Sheila’s responsible and accountable for the decisions of her employees. This fan base crucified the Ford family for decades for allowing the team to wallow in mediocrity, or worse. I don’t get the hate for Ron Wood. Sheila hired him for his business acumen, not for his input in weekly game planning. We fans have no idea what positive (or negative) impact he has had on the biz side of Sheila’s vision for the team. To my mind she’s done a fabulous job… and Ron Wood has obviously been a huge part of the success the franchise currently enjoys.
lol haggling one of the best centers ever to play the game over a portion of 3 million dollars, loser behavior
Easy to say when it's somebody else's money.
You know what isn't easy? Playing with a ruptured Adam's Apple or with inoperable turf toe.
Does recovering the signing bonus affect the Lions’ cap situation in any way?
According to your excellent excel analysis, it’s 5%of what we have to work with in a game of inches where “110%” is a cliche.
It would, but this was not significant. Less than $1 million, I'm told.
If I have taken anything away from your body of work this off season, it’s that cap space is precious. 1 M is hardly a rounding error.
Cap space is precious, but not to the decimal point. I would hate this to be a takeaway I implied. $1 million is inconsequential to the team.
Wow!
I get why they do it, but I also dont like it. Esp considering he payed all the taxes on that money already.
This doesn’t get enough visibility. The man lost money on top of losing money.
I’m sure he’s fairly intelligent but he sounds like a jackass to me. I pretty much hate everything he said…typical out of touch rich dude.
WCF Jr still has access to the building?
Who among us doesn’t look back with regret on the dark era of the Wood regime and the team’s (checks notes) strict embrace of NFL COVID protocols?
You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to vehemently disagree with you.
Woops! This comment was not directed at Zach Meyers. My apologies.
The COVID comment is baffling. This guy sucks so glad he'll be gone soon.
🫥
Yeah, I wish I pushed back on life saving science because some clown on Facebook said it’s unsafe.